Comments on: China, 'guanxi' and the Rio Tinto arrests http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/ Get to grips with the issues affecting world business Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:43:39 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: mike http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11640 mike Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:54:23 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11640 Having lived and worked and purchased property in China (I am Australian) I can well attest to the on-going need for "giving face" in all negotiations. If you smooth the way with gifts you will be treated with respect and helped. Western culture doesnt seem to understand the Chinese need to talk about every aspect of a deal at lenght. Where a simple yes or no would suffice in most western discussions a more detailed explanation regarding no to an offer is the norm. I have left many meetings with a throbbing head-ache caused by the endless discussions of the finer points of buying furniture for a house( as an example) where in Australia you would just say" I need this and that" and it happens. Guanxi is a delicate instrument in negotiations as each individual wants to be more important than the other and Chinese dont like it when you favour someone more than the other. If you are invited to a banquet lunch in your honour it is hard not to offend someone unless you get all and sundry drunk with a thousand toasts and "gonbei" Rio Tinto's actions have caused Chinese authorities to lose a massive amount of face, essentially Rio had them over a barrel and were charging like wounded bulls. That hurt the collective pride of the Chinese and now its time to regain some face. Australia isnt the only iron ore producing country in the world, but as a destination for children to be sent for education and lifestyle it is desirable. Its all about face. Having lived and worked and purchased property in China (I am Australian) I can well attest to the on-going need for "giving face" in all negotiations. If you smooth the way with gifts you will be treated with respect and helped. Western culture doesnt seem to understand the Chinese need to talk about every aspect of a deal at lenght. Where a simple yes or no would suffice in most western discussions a more detailed explanation regarding no to an offer is the norm. I have left many meetings with a throbbing head-ache caused by the endless discussions of the finer points of buying furniture for a house( as an example) where in Australia you would just say" I need this and that" and it happens. Guanxi is a delicate instrument in negotiations as each individual wants to be more important than the other and Chinese dont like it when you favour someone more than the other. If you are invited to a banquet lunch in your honour it is hard not to offend someone unless you get all and sundry drunk with a thousand toasts and "gonbei" Rio Tinto's actions have caused Chinese authorities to lose a massive amount of face, essentially Rio had them over a barrel and were charging like wounded bulls. That hurt the collective pride of the Chinese and now its time to regain some face. Australia isnt the only iron ore producing country in the world, but as a destination for children to be sent for education and lifestyle it is desirable. Its all about face.

]]> By: RENGAM http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11619 RENGAM Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:19:02 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11619 THIS IS THE CASE OF " THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK ! " THE FIRST WORLD WAR, THE SECOND WORLD WAR AND ALL OTHER MINOR BATTLES MADE ONLY THE "RICH RICHER AND POOR DESTITUDES CITIZENS OF THIS WORLD POORER." SAVE THIS WORLD BEFORE YOU DESTROY IT OR THE SUPERIOR PLANETS OF MILKY WAY STEP IN TO MAKE MATTERS WORST FOR ALL LIVING THINGS ON EARTH DUE TO ' LAWS OF NATURAL JUSTICE AS EVIDENCED BY HISTORY OF THIS WORLD ! ' " THIS IS THE CASE OF " THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK ! "
THE FIRST WORLD WAR, THE SECOND WORLD WAR AND ALL
OTHER MINOR BATTLES MADE ONLY THE "RICH RICHER AND POOR DESTITUDES CITIZENS OF THIS WORLD POORER."
SAVE THIS WORLD BEFORE YOU DESTROY IT OR THE SUPERIOR
PLANETS OF MILKY WAY STEP IN TO MAKE MATTERS WORST FOR
ALL LIVING THINGS ON EARTH DUE TO ' LAWS OF NATURAL JUSTICE AS EVIDENCED BY HISTORY OF THIS WORLD ! ' "

]]> By: RENGAM http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11618 RENGAM Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:03:38 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11618 CNN BUSINESS (360), July 20, 2009 statement " China, 'guanxi' and the Rio Tinto arrests," is COMPLETELY FALSE & MALICIOUS AS THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT DEBT WITH CHINA IS 3.8 TRILLION US$. IT WILL TAKE 28 YEARS FOR THE U.S.A. AND OTHER WESTERN POWERS TO CLEAR THEIR DEBTS. THE WARS ALL OVER THIS WORLD IS PERPETUATED BY THE SO CALLED "SUPER POWERS TO PLUNDER AND STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES & THE POOR DESTITUDE COUNTRIES UNDER THE GUISE OF FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY and BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS." The mere fact that there is FAMINE, PAIN & SUFFERING AMONG THE YOUNG AND OLD CITIZENS BECAUSE OF WAR & TRADE SANCTIONS IS A TOTAL DISGRACE TO ALL THE SUPER POWERS OF EARTH. God is Love & Love is Live and Live is God to ALL HUMANS. CNN BUSINESS (360), July 20, 2009 statement " China, 'guanxi' and
the Rio Tinto arrests," is COMPLETELY FALSE & MALICIOUS AS THE
WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT DEBT WITH CHINA IS 3.8 TRILLION US$. IT WILL TAKE 28 YEARS FOR THE U.S.A. AND OTHER WESTERN POWERS
TO CLEAR THEIR DEBTS. THE WARS ALL OVER THIS WORLD IS
PERPETUATED BY THE SO CALLED "SUPER POWERS TO PLUNDER AND STEAL FROM THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES & THE POOR DESTITUDE COUNTRIES UNDER THE GUISE OF FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY and BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS." The mere fact that there is FAMINE, PAIN & SUFFERING AMONG THE YOUNG AND OLD CITIZENS BECAUSE OF WAR & TRADE SANCTIONS IS A TOTAL DISGRACE TO ALL THE SUPER POWERS OF EARTH. God is Love & Love is Live and Live is God to ALL HUMANS.

]]> By: Donni http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11612 Donni Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:59:56 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11612 soo true Bam, in fact I tell you right now, you westies are no better than us, the only different is the standard, while its possible to bribe our officials for say 100 bucks, the same amount won't work for yours, but 10,000 probably will. human greed knows no boundaries, or countries, or colours soo true Bam, in fact I tell you right now, you westies are no better than us, the only different is the standard, while its possible to bribe our officials for say 100 bucks, the same amount won't work for yours, but 10,000 probably will.

human greed knows no boundaries, or countries, or colours

]]> By: NoMercy http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11611 NoMercy Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:01:25 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11611 This isn't just a nasty, inflammatory comment. Read on please. I grew up in Lorain, Ohio (go ahead, Google Lorain's demise) formerly home to a major steel maker, auto maker, telecommunications equipment maker and once, HUNDREDS of other manufacturing businesses. My high school years were survived there during the highest unemployment I can remember - 24% and home foreclosures advertised by large white signs were on every single street in town. What's happened in the meantime with Lorain and the US as a whole? Status quo. Here, big labor was in bed with government and, well, see what has happened in 25 years. I've said for many years "America's wealth and future have gone to hell in a hand basket, woven by the AMERIKAN unions, made in China." Good for China. Good for the "KOLLEKTIV" system of Taoist/Maoist/Buddhist thought systems. America was so afraid of the the "Reds" 60 years ago and the ridiculous cold war that ensued - and AMERIKA KOLLEKTIVLY became exactly what it thought it feared most, thanks to labor unions run amok. China has the will, the population, the foresight and certainly the values that the US has long lost. What a tragedy so many of the "Greatest Generation" died, fighting the evils of the various Axis Of Evil Powers-That-Were. What if the Nazis had won? Really. Where would we be now? There probably wouldn't be a China, no illegal immigration, no fake BUMS waving signs, and most certainly no radical religiously oriented terrorism. Chew on that thought for a while. My children are going to master Putonghua and Bahasa languages to ensure they have a future as (relatively) free and prosperous world citizens in a future world where China is the Lord and Master of ALL of us who just HAD to have those doggoned 89 cent widgets from Wal-Mart. Grow up, take it on the chin and resolve yourselves that China will be the standard regardless of its endemic corruption and refusal to play by international "rules" of business. Thanks for reading...hope this both inflames the mentally lame/lazy and inspires the wise. Love, NoMercy, gotta get back to my Rosetta Stone program! This isn't just a nasty, inflammatory comment. Read on please. I grew up in Lorain, Ohio (go ahead, Google Lorain's demise) formerly home to a major steel maker, auto maker, telecommunications equipment maker and once, HUNDREDS of other manufacturing businesses. My high school years were survived there during the highest unemployment I can remember – 24% and home foreclosures advertised by large white signs were on every single street in town. What's happened in the meantime with Lorain and the US as a whole? Status quo. Here, big labor was in bed with government and, well, see what has happened in 25 years. I've said for many years "America's wealth and future have gone to hell in a hand basket, woven by the AMERIKAN unions, made in China." Good for China. Good for the "KOLLEKTIV" system of Taoist/Maoist/Buddhist thought systems. America was so afraid of the the "Reds" 60 years ago and the ridiculous cold war that ensued – and AMERIKA KOLLEKTIVLY became exactly what it thought it feared most, thanks to labor unions run amok. China has the will, the population, the foresight and certainly the values that the US has long lost. What a tragedy so many of the "Greatest Generation" died, fighting the evils of the various Axis Of Evil Powers-That-Were. What if the Nazis had won? Really. Where would we be now? There probably wouldn't be a China, no illegal immigration, no fake BUMS waving signs, and most certainly no radical religiously oriented terrorism. Chew on that thought for a while. My children are going to master Putonghua and Bahasa languages to ensure they have a future as (relatively) free and prosperous world citizens in a future world where China is the Lord and Master of ALL of us who just HAD to have those doggoned 89 cent widgets from Wal-Mart. Grow up, take it on the chin and resolve yourselves that China will be the standard regardless of its endemic corruption and refusal to play by international "rules" of business. Thanks for reading...hope this both inflames the mentally lame/lazy and inspires the wise. Love, NoMercy, gotta get back to my Rosetta Stone program!

]]> By: Jas. http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11591 Jas. Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:11:58 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11591 I have done business in China. The legal system is a disaster. Most of the courts and attorneys are corrupt. If you are a foreigner your chances of winning a court case against a Chinese national are minimal. I have done business in China. The legal system is a disaster. Most of the courts and attorneys are corrupt. If you are a foreigner your chances
of winning a court case against a Chinese national are minimal.

]]> By: Richard http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11574 Richard Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:48:30 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11574 Payback for a cancelled merger??? Payback for a cancelled merger???

]]> By: Luc http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11569 Luc Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:39:02 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11569 I was a mortgage consultant in America, and boy, tell me there is not corruption in this business here. For me to get around this city, I have to have many relationship with the local and city and state government, and even my company is paying for me to do so. So tell me who doesn't want relationship when you are a business men or women. There were time I was told to do stuff I wasn't comfortable. It is also true that we westerner quick to point out others mistakes without acknowledging we too have the same problem. It is also true that we always assumed that we are always innoccent no matter what we done wrong in other countries. Remember the guy in singapore during the clinton's administration...forgot his name, Michael Faith? He lutted the street of Singapre and was later caught by the Singaporean policce and immediately the Clinton administration made an appeal to the Singaporean's government? If you break the rule, face your consequences. I was a mortgage consultant in America, and boy, tell me there is not corruption in this business here. For me to get around this city, I have to have many relationship with the local and city and state government, and even my company is paying for me to do so. So tell me who doesn't want relationship when you are a business men or women. There were time I was told to do stuff I wasn't comfortable.

It is also true that we westerner quick to point out others mistakes without acknowledging we too have the same problem. It is also true that we always assumed that we are always innoccent no matter what we done wrong in other countries. Remember the guy in singapore during the clinton's administration...forgot his name, Michael Faith? He lutted the street of Singapre and was later caught by the Singaporean policce and immediately the Clinton administration made an appeal to the Singaporean's government?

If you break the rule, face your consequences.

]]> By: Bam Sohatono http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11566 Bam Sohatono Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:29:02 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11566 The westerners ' reaction is always very predictable. If a westerner is arrested for any crime in an Asian or African country, they always come out yelling and protesting that the westerner is innocent, even before any court proceedings. Each time a westerner gets caught smuggling drugs, his embassy will protest innocence. Sounds familiar? And now when a Rio Tinto's employee is charged with breaking the law, Australia is quick to judge his innocence, even before any court proceeding has taken place. Even before the prosecutor has a chance to prove his case in court. If China is a weak country, Australia would have sent in their marines to free him, just like in the 18th and 19th century. Yeah, westerners always conduct business cleanly. No spying and stealing. They don't break laws. Oh yeah. The westerners ' reaction is always very predictable. If a westerner is arrested for any crime in an Asian or African country, they always come out yelling and protesting that the westerner is innocent, even before any court proceedings. Each time a westerner gets caught smuggling drugs, his embassy will protest innocence. Sounds familiar? And now when a Rio Tinto's employee is charged with breaking the law, Australia is quick to judge his innocence, even before any court proceeding has taken place. Even before the prosecutor has a chance to prove his case in court. If China is a weak country, Australia would have sent in their marines to free him, just like in the 18th and 19th century. Yeah, westerners always conduct business cleanly. No spying and stealing. They don't break laws. Oh yeah.

]]> By: Verito http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/20/china-guanxi-and-the-rio-tinto-arrests/#comment-11563 Verito Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:03:34 +0000 http://business.blogs.cnn.com/?p=1688#comment-11563 having considerable business in china I have nothing but admiration for what they have achieved. one doesn't have to look too far back to analyze 'corruption' - it happened in the states, in europe, in japan, korea and it continues to happen even today in smaller degrees. it does not have to be money - each time one gives a gift or a favor or a karaoke night out like it happens in china it's corrupting behaviour because it means you induce your counterparty to feel obliged to return the favor with something else in return. All the rest ie. this is our culture, guanxi etc is hogwash and should be treated like that . Unfortunately again looking at history corruption can only be erradicated if we ALL make an effort. I fear what we see now in china is just theatre - when the show is over and spotlight the cast will change but the show will continue. If any country and please don't say it only happens in china - wants to make an effort to eradicate corruption it has to start from the top - it has to be systemic and it has to be long lasting - to be corrupted has to be a big social stigma and so should to corrupt. having considerable business in china I have nothing but admiration for what they have achieved. one doesn't have to look too far back to analyze 'corruption' – it happened in the states, in europe, in japan, korea and it continues to happen even today in smaller degrees. it does not have to be money – each time one gives a gift or a favor or a karaoke night out like it happens in china it's corrupting behaviour because it means you induce your counterparty to feel obliged to return the favor with something else in return. All the rest ie. this is our culture, guanxi etc is hogwash and should be treated like that . Unfortunately again looking at history corruption can only be erradicated if we ALL make an effort. I fear what we see now in china is just theatre – when the show is over and spotlight the cast will change but the show will continue. If any country and please don't say it only happens in china – wants to make an effort to eradicate corruption it has to start from the top – it has to be systemic and it has to be long lasting – to be corrupted has to be a big social stigma and so should to corrupt.

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